US V. GHISLAINE MAXWELL - DAY 4

[noumoe]

https://www.uncensoredstorm.com/maxwell4

U.S. v Ghislaine Maxwell Transcripts

DAY 4 [12.2.21]

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Day 4. New witness: Paul Kane of NYC's Professional Children's School.



AUSA: Look at Government Exhibit 721. Do you recognize it?

Day 4. New witness: Paul Kane of NYC's Professional Children's School.

AUSA: Look at Government Exhibit 721. Do you recognize it?

Kane: An enrollment application for a student.

AUSA: Don't say the name. Is it an accurate copy?

Kane: Yes.



Maxwell's lawyer: Objection - hearsay!

AUSA: It's a business record.

Judge Nathan: Overruled.



Maxwell's lawyer: Can I question the witness?

Judge Nathan: Go ahead.

Maxwell's lawyer: The Professional Children's School doesn't verify the accuracy of the info on the form, does it?

Kane: I think they do.

Maxwell's lawyer: All of it?

Kane: That, I don't know.

Maxwell's lawyer: So the info—



AUSA: Your Honor, may I?

Judge Nathan: You may.

AUSA: What happens to info coming in?

Kane: Contact the family by phone, then invite them to tour the school and have a conversation.

AUSA: Does the School rely on the form?

Kane: Yes.



[After sidebar, document is in]



AUSA: What grade was the person applying for?

Kane: 12th. Due to "move to New York."

AUSA: Who's listed as person of financial responsibility?

Kane: Mister Jeffrey Epstein.

AUSA: Thanks. No further questions.



Maxwell's lawyer: You have no idea if Mr. Epstein actually paid.

Kane: I do not.

Maxwell's lawyer: And for the mother, does it say unemployed?

Kane: It says self-employed. As an interior decorator.

Maxwell's lawyer: And who is the listed agent?



AUSA: Objection!

Judge Nathan: Just make the jurors look at it.



Maxwell's lawyer: Look the name in the corner. And the name of the prior principal. You don't have to say them for the record. No further questions.



Judge Nathan: Thank you Mr Kane. Next US witness.



It's Doctor Lisa Rocchio. "I have a Masters and PhD from U of Rhode Island."



[After long presentation of credentials, Rocchio is in as an expert.]



AUSA: Did you interview anyone in this case?

Rocchio: No.

AUSA: Does your pay depend on outcome of the trial?

Rocchio: No.

AUSA: What is grooming?

Rocchio: Strategies to get children into sex

Rocchio: I've seen grooming in the Boy Scouts through a special camping trip. Or jewelry, anything to make the children feel they are appreciated.



[During the Daubert hearing, before trial, Maxwell's lawyer asked, does this mean that grandparents are grooming?]



AUSA: How common is it for a child to be repeatedly abused by the same perp?

Rocchio: Very common. It's by people close to the child.

AUSA: What is a grooming environment?

Rocchio: The perp develops trust with people around the child, for example with the parents



[long non-public sidebar]



AUSA: Are victims of child sexual abuse likely to report it to the police?

Rocchio: No.

AUSA: How do they talk about it?



Maxwell's lawyer: Objection - no foundation.

Judge Nathan: I'll sustain. Can you re-phrase?



AUSA: What is the long term impact?

Rocchio: They are at higher risk for adverse outcomes.

AUSA: Nothing further.



Judge Nathan: Let's take our break.



Maxwell's lawyer: Doctor Rocchio, you have a $45,000 contract for this, correct?

Rocchio: Yes.

Maxwell's lawyer: If one had a brain injury, it might be hard to remember, right?



AUSA: Objection.

Judge Nathan: Sustained.



Maxwell's lawyer: Alcohol would harm recall too, yes?



AUSA: Objection.

Judge Nathan: Sustained.



Maxwell's lawyer: Are you familiar with confabulation?



AUSA: Objection!

Judge: Overruled.



Maxwell's lawyer: It's filling in the gaps.



AUSA: Objection.

Judge: Sustained.



Maxwell's lawyer: My grandfather liked to take me to the Bronx Zoo. Was that grooming?



Next US witness is Juan Patricio Alessi.



AUSA: Where do you come from?

Alessi: Quito, Ecuador.

AUSA: When did you move to Florida?

Alessi: Early 1984. I worked for a wealthy family in Palm Beach, I was a maintenance guy. Then I worked for Mister Jeffrey Epstein

AUSA: How did you meet Epstein?

Alessi: I was working on Mister Wexner's mother's house. [!]

AUSA: Who is in this photo?

Alessi: Mr. Jeffrey Epstein

AUSA: When Mr. Epstein was in Palm Beach, where did you sleep?

Alessi: I had a room there.

AUSA: Who else worked there?

Alessi: I brought my wife to help me. And other girls.

AUSA: How did things changed after Ms. Maxwell got involved?

Alessi: Things were less cordial. Less conversation. I was not allowed to see Mr. Epstein anymore, unless he asked me question. Ms. Maxwell said, Don't look at his eyes, "look at another part of him."



[And with that, and a blueprint of the house on the screens]

Judge Nathan: The jurors' lunch has arrived. Let's break.



[Alessi is describing Epstein's Palm Beach home in great detail. Presumably it will become relevant in the testimony of Survivor / Witnesses 2, 3 and 4.]

AUSA: Pull up Gov Exhibit 297. Mr. Alessi what is this?

Alessi: The 2d floor. That is toward Mr. Epstein's bedroom. There was a huge bathroom.

AUSA: And what's that other bathroom?

Alessi: That's Ms. Maxwell's bathroom.

AUSA: But they both came off the master bedroom?

Alessi. Yes.

AUSA: Where did Ms. Maxwell sleep in the Palm Beach house?



Maxwell's lawyer: Objection! But it's allowed.



Alessi: She slept in Mr. Epstein's bedroom.

AUSA: How many times did you see females by Mr. Epstein's pool?

Alessi: 100s. AUSA: How often were they topless?

Alessi: 75% of the time

AUSA: How about Little St. James?

Alessi: I was on a cruise with my wife to St. Thomas. They picked us up & showed us Little St. James. It was huge.

AUSA: Did you visit any Ms Maxwell property?

Alessi: Her townhome in London. She invited us. It had a red front door

AUSA: What conversations did you have with Ms. Maxwell about this booklet?

Alessi: I told her I could not do this checklist, with all my other work.

AUSA: Show them Gov Exhibit 606.

AUSA: How long is this book?

Alessi: 58 pages.

AUSA: What is it?

Alessi: List of what were supposed to do to maintain the house.



[Now Maxwell's lawyer will question Alessi about the book of instructions.]



Maxwell's lawyer: When you left, you didn't have this in your possession did you?

Alessi: No I did not.

Maxwell's lawyer: But this book was created after you left, at least by the date on it



Maxwell's lawyer: We object to 606.

AUSA: He identified pages.

Judge Nathan: I'm overruling the objection. 606 is admitted.



AUSA: We you recognize the address at the bottom?

Alessi: Mr. Epstein's residence.

AUSA: What does this instruction saw?

Alessi: "Do not discuss your personal problems with guests."

AUSA: And this one?

Alessi: "Respect their privacy."

AUSA: There's a reference to the JE and the GM telephone directories. What were they?

Alessi: Books with hundreds and hundreds of names. Directions and addresses.

Alessi: They were 2 inches thick. Full of names.

AUSA [for some reason turning away from the 2 black books, at least for now] Let's turn to page 23, about Ms. Maxwell's desk. What does it say?

Alessi: Please the directory to the right of the phone.

Assistant US Attorney: What is this?

Alessi: Instructions for serving breakfast. Sometimes at 5 am.

AUSA: Who else worked there?

Alessi: Chefs. My wife. Ms Maxwell's assistant. Then Sarah Kellen.

Alessi: Two females seemed to be underage.

AUSA: Don't say their names. Jurors, look at the binders under your chairs. GX 12.

Alessi: Can I have a cup of water?

AUSA: Is that name the person we'll call Jane?

Alessi: Yes. I met Virginia Roberts too.

AUSA: When you met Jane how old was she?

Alessi: Appeared 14 or 15. She was beautiful, beautiful eyes, long brunette hair, very pleasant. Three times she was there with her mother. Then, without her mother. Many times.

AUSA: How would Jane get to the house?

Alessi: I would pick her up, and the direction of Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell.

AUSA: When did you meet Ms Virginia Roberts?

Alessi: I was at Mar-A-Lago with Ms. Maxwell. I waited in the car like the driver

Alessi: It was a hot day. Ms. Maxwell said, Stop, John, Stop. I did and Ms Maxwell went up to this girl.

AUSA: Where was this girl?

Alessi: She was coming down the ramp.

AUSA: How did she look?

Alessi: Young.

Alessi: Then by 5 pm I saw her [Virginia Roberts] back at the house.

AUSA: Show Exhibits 113 and 114 only to the witness and parties... How old did you think Ms Roberts was?

Alessi: 14 or 15.

AUSA: Did Ms. Maxwell ever instruct you to pick up Ms. Roberts?

Alessi: Yes.

AUSA: Did you ever see Ms. Roberts at Mr. Epstein's home with luggage?

Alessi: Yes. I drove them to the plane.

AUSA: How many massages would Mr. Epstein get a day?

Alessi: Before I left, thee a day. I called whoever they told me to call.

AUSA: Did the phone books we discussed have names for massage in them?

Alessi: Yes.

AUSA: Did you see Jane's name in it?

Alessi: Yes. The books were updated twice a year.

AUSA: What did you do with them, when new ones were made?

Alessi: Just throw them away.

AUSA: I have a physical exhibit, GX 52. May I approach the witness? Do you recognize it? What is it?

Alessi: It is the directory.

AUSA: Did you review it last night?

Alessi: I did.

AUSA: Every page?

Alessi: Yes.

AUSA: How many names?

Alessi: Many. Many. Many.

AUSA: Is this the same you saw when you were that or a later version?

Alessi: A later version.

AUSA: Pull up Exhibit 52a. It is a sealed exhibit.

Judge Nathan: Let's take a break.



[with jury out, lawyers' arguments continue. Assistant US Attorney says "We are not offering the full exhibit 52 [the black book]. [Why not?] Now break is taken]

All rise!

Now Alessi back.



AUSA: How often was the directory updated?

Alessi: Twice a year. And the names of new employees were added, and those who left were taken out.

AUSA: Is Sarah Kellen in this version?



Objection - leading.

Judge Nathan: I'll overrule that.

[Long sidebar, after which Maxwell's lawyer does the questioning]



Maxwell's lawyer: As you sit here today, 19 years later, you have no idea where Exhibit 52 has been?

Maxwell's lawyer: You said the book was two inches thick. But Exhibit 52 is a quarter inch thick, correct?

Alessi: Yes.

Maxwell's lawyer: The book you were talking about was from New York, right?

Alessi: Yes

Maxwell's lawyer: And the PostIt(TM) notes weren't there, right?

Alessi: Right. But it continues:



AUSA: Did you take messages for Mr. Epstein? How?

Alessi: If he didn't want to talk the call. Or wasn't there.

Maxwell's lawyer: There are a number of pages without dates next to the names. Do you know that?

Alessi: I guess so.

Judge Nathan: Exhibits admitted.

AUSA: They are sealed - not to be put on screens, binders only. More more questions:

AUSA: What supplies did you buy for the massages?

Alessi: No oils, I was –



Maxwell's lawyer: Objection!



AUSA: Did Ms Maxwell give you supplies?

Alessi: Exotic oils for other countries.

AUSA: Was Mr. Epstein's door open during the massages?

Alessi: Never. Afterward I went in with gloves.

AUSA: Why?

Alessi: To clean up.

AUSA: What did you see after the massages? Towels?

Alessi: Yes. But not all of the massages.

AUSA: Do any incidents stand out in your mind?

Alessi: I found a large dildo.

AUSA Comey: What did you do with it?

Alessi: Wash it up.

AUSA: Where did you put the dildo?

Alessi: In Ms. Maxwell's bathroom. In a basket.

AUSA: How did you know where to put it?

Alessi: I knew everything going on in the house.

AUSA: What else was in the basket?

Alessi: I saw pornographic tapes.

AUSA: How often did you see the dildo?

Alessi: At least five times.

AUSA: And the other one, the massager, did the ball at the end vibrate?

Alessi: Yes. I would put it at the top of Mr. Epstein's dresser.

AUSA Comey: What photos were in the house?

Alessi: Photos of Mr Epstein and Ms Maxwell with important people.

AUSA: Like who?

Alessi: Donald Trump. The Pope, I think, Fidel Castro.

AUSA: Were there photographs of naked women?

Alessi: Yes. But those were kept in Ms. Maxwell's desk.

AUSA: Why did you leave Mr Epstein's employ?

Alessi: I was sick and tired.

AUSA: Did you sign a non-disclosure agreement?

Alessi: Yes. About both of them.

AUSA: Were you questioned by the police after you took $6300 from Mr. Epstein?

Alessi: Yes.

AUSA: Were you arrested?

Alessi: No.

AUSA: Nothing further.

Maxwell's lawyers: We'll start our cross tomorrow [it's 4:48]